The Artisanal Essence of Krems: A Conversation About Sweets, Coffee, and Community with Thomas Hagmann of Café-Konditorei Hagmann
Jan 02, 2024Season 2Episode 1
Jill Dutton
Embark on a sensory expedition to the heart of Krems, Austria as I converse with the master of sweets, Thomas Hagmann. Within the storied walls of Café-Konditorei Hagmann, a legacy unfolds, revealing the social fabric woven by Austrian coffee houses since 1836. Our discussion traverses the evolution of these cultural hubs, from their origins in trade and tradition to their role as modern-day bastions of community. We will tantalize your taste buds with tales of local confections and Austrian coffee culture.
As the scent of fresh coffee fills the air, we delve into the stark contrasts between the artistry of Hagmann's handmade chocolates and the impersonal touch of mass production. I will share the behind-the-scenes dedication involved in creating chocolates weekly to guarantee unparalleled freshness and flavor. Join us as we paint a picture of Krems' bustling life, where coffee houses stand as timeless venues for heartfelt conversations and the crossroads of local and visiting lives. Through this episode, immerse yourself in the authentic beat of Austrian living, savoring the rich blend of past and present through the lens of its most cherished coffee and chocolate traditions.
Embark on a sensory expedition to the heart of Krems, Austria as I converse with the master of sweets, Thomas Hagmann. Within the storied walls of Café-Konditorei Hagmann, a legacy unfolds, revealing the social fabric woven by Austrian coffee houses since 1836. Our discussion traverses the evolution of these cultural hubs, from their origins in trade and tradition to their role as modern-day bastions of community. We will tantalize your taste buds with tales of local confections and Austrian coffee culture.
As the scent of fresh coffee fills the air, we delve into the stark contrasts between the artistry of Hagmann's handmade chocolates and the impersonal touch of mass production. I will share the behind-the-scenes dedication involved in creating chocolates weekly to guarantee unparalleled freshness and flavor. Join us as we paint a picture of Krems' bustling life, where coffee houses stand as timeless venues for heartfelt conversations and the crossroads of local and visiting lives. Through this episode, immerse yourself in the authentic beat of Austrian living, savoring the rich blend of past and present through the lens of its most cherished coffee and chocolate traditions.
Want more? Follow Jill's travels, view itineraries, read travel articles, and listen to podcast episodes at Global Journeys with Jill Dutton.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to Global Journeys with Jill Dutton, the podcast that transports you to captivating destinations around the globe. I'm your host, jill Dutton, a passionate traveler and seasoned travel writer. In each episode, we delve into the heart of a destination with a unique blend of storytelling. Join me as we introduce you to fascinating individuals and explore the enchanted places they call home. To learn more about my writing and podcasting career, stay tuned until the end of the episode for more details. Now let's embark on this global journey together, one person in place at a time.
Speaker 1:
Today's episode takes us to the heart of Austria, to the enchanting town of Krems, along the meandering Danube River. I was on a Viking river cruise along the Danube when I took a tour of Krems. It was a Sunday morning in Krems, austria, the church bells rang as Elizabeth, the local tourism representative, and I walked the cobblestone streets of this ancient city, the pedestrian area was nearly empty, as residents were at church and other tourists from our crews were touring the Gottweig Abbey. Many businesses were closed, but Thomas Hagman, owner of Café Conditoree Hagman, had opened his store for me to sample a cappuccino and his award-winning chocolates. He sat down for a conversation about Austrian coffee culture and his sweet passion for creating delicacies.
Speaker 1:
Austria is known for its rich cultural heritage, stunning landscapes and, of course, its vibrant coffee culture. The art of chocolate making is woven into the fabric of Austrian culinary traditions as well, and our journey today will unveil the sweet secrets behind this delectable craft. La Confesserie means sweet shop, and Hagman Confesserie was a veritable feast of sweet traditions. They have a long tradition of candy making, as this family-owned confectionery and café opened in 1836. They see themselves as guardians of old recipes and traditions, but also as a modern confesserie specializing in pastries and cakes, chocolates, gingerbread, coffee and ice cream specialties. So whether you're a coffee connoisseur, a chocolate lover or simply someone yearning for a taste of Austrian hospitality, this episode is tailor-made for you. Join us as we unravel the intricacies of Austrian coffee culture, delve into the world of chocolate making and explore the story behind Café Conditérie Hagman. Get ready for an immersive journey through flavors, culture and the passionate craftsmanship that defines this extraordinary café. Without further ado, let's immerse ourselves in the magic that is Café Conditérie.
Speaker 3:
The legend says that the first coffee house was founded in Vienna after the Austrian-Turkish war. The Turkish left the coffee in the city and one guy founded the first coffee house. This was about 700 years ago. This is just a legend. The real story is that the first coffee houses in Vienna are about 1820, 1840. This period, this is the period of Peter Meier and the period of the emancipation of the emperor.
Speaker 3:
In the former days the emperor had all rights and then the people started to have their own institution. For example, in the States they had an institution in 1970 or 1979. This time the people had the chance to go to coffee houses or to other restaurants. Our coffee house was founded in 1836. We have over 187 years. We are the first in this region and we are approximately at the same time as the Viennese. This was a privilege in these days because Cremes was an old city of trade. We had the Danube and the crossing to the Bohemian region and to Italy. We had the first mention of a chocolate trader from the 70s and 76s about this here in Cremes. This was really unusual for such a small city. From this time we have this confectionery.
Speaker 3:
I don't know if it's a right translation. Con d'etorei is the German word. It means we are the specialists for all sweet dishes. In the other countries it's not so usual to have the baker. The baker also makes sweet dishes and pastries, but in Austria, in the middle of Europe, we have two parts. We have the baker for the bread and all the sweet dishes is the con dito. Translated to, zuckerbäcker means the sugar baker. This firm is from 1836. There is a long tradition of the family. We have just old books from different cakes and so on. Usually we have the sweet dishes and so on. On the first floor there is the bigger size. We serve, of course, coffee, small dishes and so on. In Austria, people come here and have good conversations, read newspapers and so on. It's the Austrian way of life. In Italy you go to the restaurant in the evening. In Austria you go to the con d'etorei in the afternoon. It depends on how you work.
Speaker 2:
It also depends on the work days. It's really part of Austrian life. Even young people are like let's go for a coffee. It's just something you do.
Speaker 3:
The Graemser of the Wachau had some things to the Austrian confectionery, for example, you know the apricot you will go to Mr.
Speaker 3:
Hellerschmidt, hellerschmidt produces everything from apricot and nearly the same is for us. You have now here the Wachauer Kugel. It's similar to the Mozart Kugel, but this one is better. Of course, I can't explain the other reason, because this is with Nugat and Marzipan and apricots. The Mozart Kugel, for example, there is Nugat, marzipan and Pistas. Here in the Wachau we have everything with the apricot. Yes, and when you taste it and you taste the Mozart Kugel, if you buy it, the Mozart Kugel is hard inside. Mozart Kugel are industrial products but we make it by hand for our own and if you see it, our feeling is soft because it's fresh.
Speaker 3:
I made this one last week and that's just one product, a typical product from us.
Speaker 1:
And do you sell just from the store or do you also ship?
Speaker 3:
We have some, some retailers, but very small, you know. So specialities, we are not in the supermarket or something like this, we have our own. You know, we have marked market segment. We're just for. We have a small structure, family firm. We have, of course, online internet, that's of course, and we have, for example, the Sacha Dorte is not a V&E specialty, sacha Dorte is one of the main ingredients of a Sacha Dorte is the chocolate and the apricot marmalade, apricot jam and we are here in the special area from the apricot jam.
Speaker 3:
So the Sacha Dorte is also a very important product for our firm and we sell a lot of Sacha Dorte in Vienna. We have customers in Vienna. We deliver one time a week to Vienna Sacha Dorte, bralines, chocolate and so on, because Vienna is so near and is of course, a big city, so it's important for us to get the distance to Vienna.
Speaker 2:
Yes. And yeah, we have a lot of different products.
Speaker 3:
If you want, you can go to the other side of the street to my production room. I can show you something. But usually it's not allowed to go with you know, groups and so on in the production room. That's the reason why we started about 10 years ago with groups.
Speaker 1:
In the first floor.
Speaker 3:
In the first floor we have a lot of space in the first floor. And there we make presentation. Usually I make the presentation, you know we have other dress.
Speaker 2:
It's another dress, like the traditional dress coat. This is my dress.
Speaker 3:
And then we have the. We have an introduction in chocolate. Usually I make it for 25 to 30 is the limit.
Speaker 2:
How many people 25 to 30 people. Because there are just too many people and they can't like you know.
Speaker 3:
We have rotation If there are many people. For example, we have booking with 100 people, so I have to separate it in three parts. Okay, and first of all, they gave a coffee or some tea or something with a small cake, a chocolate cake, but not a Sacher dort. It's a very nice. It's a lighter version of the Sacher cake so it's easy to eat. It's a simple reason because I learned if the people come to a chocolate tasting, they eat a lot at the beginning and then they have problems with the. Okay, so we start always the same. We have coffee and a little cake so the people can taste it. Usually then they are big-ass starts.
Speaker 2:
They are very euphoric after this, you know, yeah, oh yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:
And then I start with the presentation. That means I explain them what's chocolate, what's cacao, what the ingredients. Then we have some tastings, from dark chocolate to milk chocolate, white chocolate. Then we make some bralines. I make some bralines in front of them with caramel filling. Then I make a lot of small things and give them to taste and in the end of the presentation we make a range of our chocolates. We have typical chocolate from our region. So we are not I told you, I'm not industrial producers. We have only things from here, and then I have two or three samples for this chocolate. So the people get a lot of chocolate if they want. So that's the reason why it's important they drink a coffee and a cake.
Speaker 3:
But for starting, otherwise it's not good for them. So then after this the people have the chance to go downstairs and most of them buy something. Specialities we have here are shop with some souvenirs and so on, but no industrial souvenirs, always handmade.
Speaker 1:
Do you also sell coffee beans so that people can just curious?
Speaker 3:
No, I made these coffee beans. I have two different types of coffee. I can show you I have a Viennese coffee, because the roasting of the Viennese coffee is a little bit lighter, and the black one is an Italian roasting, because it's more harsh. This is Italian, it's a cappuccino With milk. You need a little bit more aroma in this coffee and this is not a typical product for us because we don't roast it for ourselves. I never heard that tourists want a coffee, but maybe in the future.
Speaker 3:
I made small packages with our name and so on. I made this set, but we left it 20 years ago and I said okay, nobody wants it?
Speaker 1:
I was just curious, because it's such good coffee.
Speaker 2:
We do have one roast in Cremes actually Coffee campus. What was it again Coffee campus. So, like coffee campus, like campus of coffee, and they roast and they also, for example, there are a few. Of course, we have more coffee houses. This is the oldest one, most traditional one. That's why I wanted to show you, and especially because it's with the pastries and the chocolate tasting. But there are also more. The coffee campus makes, for example, roasting especially for this coffee house. So, for example, there's their own roasting for bol de fizka and their own roasting for that. So, yeah, they do that, and so it's kind of like you know the, the thing that you have that maybe the other coffee houses don't have, and yeah, and the coffee campus is also like they also have a small coffee shop with it, but it's not like here where everything is served and where I say it's traditional coffee campus has more of Starbucks, because you have to go get it yourself, for example.
Speaker 2:
It's still it like people love it because they have their own rosary, but they're not the typical coffee coffee house.
Speaker 3:
This is we call it. It's a surprise chocolate because I don't know what's inside. This are the edges of the regular chocolate, you know. I don't know what, it is, just taste it.
Speaker 2:
This is with milk chocolate, and this is is it butter like a no?
Speaker 1:
no, no butter.
Speaker 3:
Butter is not inside, it's just chocolate with. Usually you have a liquid, you have to. Our filling is a soft filling. It's it's the same like in the in the motos, at the vachauer cooking, because this is an indicator for handmade product. If you buy an industrial product it's usually hard because they produce on stock. We produce every week fresh, fresh, I can show you over there, because we are a very small structured firm and so we produce. We start on Monday and on Friday everything has out of the of the production room because we started Monday again, you know, and we only make customized products. So if you order, for example, you have own, own types of chocolate, then we produce it fresh. We don't produce on stock and you should taste it because it's very fresh.
Speaker 3:
You have a very good tasting and it's completely different to a industrial chocolate from the supermarket off of the gas station or whatever the tech it's so soft and but I mean, the taste is also good.
Speaker 1:
I think that's. Oh, this one was that one apricot, but this one's more like a truffle or just just chocolate filling.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, truffle is a is a name for. We also have truffles for the, for the, for the.
Speaker 1:
I just could think of the word for the filling.
Speaker 3:
Yes, the truffle is a is a term of a profession and the right, the right term is ganache. It's ganache, thank you. Yes, and it's always a combination of liquid and chocolate. For example, the simplest ganache is the 50, 50 percent. We have 50 percent cream, not whipped cream, and 50 percent chocolate. I explained this, everything in this, in this presentation. Oh, yes, yes, the cake I told you the first, it's a truffle schnitte, that means it's a. It's a cake with this ganache. We say grain Parisienne, you can whip it and then you have a very light variety of a chocolate cake and then on the top you have the ganache as a.
Speaker 3:
I think it's the name of the gassour and I explain everything in this presentation, and I'm, of course, a confectioner, so I can explain to people a lot of stories behind typical Austrian specialities, and so it's usually it's every presentation is different, of course, because I have an interaction with the people and it's usually very funny, you know, but this one is apricot, yes this is.
Speaker 3:
I think this is. We have now Christmas chocolates, you know, and I don't know what it is, because these are the edges of the and they make the chocolate and that's we call it surprise chocolate because, but it tastes very good and people love it if you give it to them as a giveaway. Yes, and usually we prepare sachetot in the wooden box and chocolate and the people are very happy and they are very happy.
Speaker 3:
And they are also very happy because you told it, I think because Kremse is a city with real life. So the tourists like, like they see, oh, there are real people they are cities in Europe. This is like Disneyland. You know, everything is made for the tourists in Kremse. Here, real people from our guests and usually they ask always, ah, where they who come from? Ah, they are from China or from the states and so on. Yeah, so that's real life here.
Speaker 2:
There is no, no facade it's not like a museum, like you know, you have a few cities and, depending on when you go there, it kind of like feels like it just everything is just there, but you can like feel the spirit of the people. You don't see the people, and that's actually what I meant. Like, even with the coffee house culture, we don't present it to you because that's what we want the tourists to do, but it's actually like what we do, like even the young kids, like I mean told you I lived in Texas and everybody was meeting at the mall in Kremse. You're going for coffee, like even if you don't drink coffee, but he's still saying let's go to for a coffee. And you're meeting at a coffee house, even if you might drink a coke or something, but even like for the young people, it's still the thing of like, okay, we're meeting there and then from there we will see what we will do.
Speaker 2:
So this is really what. That's actually what I loved about Kremse when I moved here, so that it's that it's not just being here a student, but like people you know, talking with you and and having the interaction and showing you things. And yeah, it's, it's really it's, it's a, it's living traditions here and and that's actually pretty nice, that it's not just we're going to do it because it's a tradition, but it's really lived and that's that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, this is our, our meeting point and we had a lot of I don't know the English word Stam Kunden. People are coming every day repeat customers yeah, every day a small coffee, and then in former days, when I was a child, it was much more than now. The people came because they had more time.
Speaker 3:
But now it's everything is stressing, they read the big newspapers and sitting two hours and read, and so very, very nice surrounding a lot of people in Vienna, for example, cafe Centrale or the, the, the, the poets and so on, the, everybody meets in the coffee house because there was the, the place to have a conversation. So that's the typical Austin of, let's say, the typical middle European.
Speaker 2:
And it's also like what I love about it like everybody has his like typical coffee house where he goes to, and usually the waiters do know their customers. So like, for example, like I live here and have right opposite a coffee house and when I go there, like I don't even have to order, just like hide the same, yes, and you know you're just sitting down and you know you know exactly what you're getting.
Speaker 3:
And so this is yeah, so where do you come from?
Speaker 1:
Kansas City, kansas.
Speaker 3:
I started in one state above, in Omaha. Nebraska, omaha, nebraska, it's just an exchange program from our University of Economics in Vienna. This is a partner university, so I was there.
Speaker 2:
And my daughter, my daughter Francisca.
Speaker 3:
Nice to meet you Hi. My older daughter is now in Oregon.
Speaker 1:
There's an exchange here. Oh, that's very pretty.
Speaker 3:
She's one here in Woodward.
Speaker 1:
Have you visited her there?
Speaker 3:
No, we will go next year it rains a lot because it's not allowed for us to visit her because she's there from a rotary exchange program and but next summer we want to go and make a west coast trip and so on, because Nebraska's not real pretty, but yes, but it was also nice. If the people are nice, everywhere is nice.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes, yeah, midwest, I mean very friendly people. I just went to Kansas and Nebraska or Farmlands, oregon.
Speaker 3:
You've got the coast and wineries and you know we had a total trip from Chicago, New York, west coast. As always, we tried to look at everything in the states. It was really a whole summer a whole semester. It was really interesting. But, the people we are here in games, especially from the ships and so on. They are usually very friendly. Yeah, that's there. I always say they're much more friendly than the Austrians sometimes.
Speaker 2:
It's the Austrian charm that we're just like. It's another type of lifestyle. Yes, it's just sometimes we seem grumpy. We're not like that.
Speaker 1:
That's why I don't know if you saw my post, but in Vienna the tour guide, she said that they're voted. Yeah, it's a livable city, but also the grumpy.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, the most grumpy city. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:
Unfunny joke Because I learned in the states that the people and the waiters and so on, they are very friendly. You know, and it was, the service in the states is, I think, excellent. And in Austria we say the waiter, especially the coffee house, not in our coffee house, we are a different type of coffee house, but the classic coffee house he must be creepy, he must be unfriendly a little bit to his guests. But this is like a play, you know.
Speaker 2:
Good morning, morning, yes, and that's more a game.
Speaker 3:
So that's different because it's another lifestyle, but it's not so creepy, grumpy.
Speaker 2:
Grumpy, grumpy, grumpy.
Speaker 3:
It's not just a game.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes, welcome to Global Journeys with Jill Dutton, the captivating travel podcast that takes you on an extraordinary adventure around the world. I'm your host, jill Dutton, and I am thrilled to be your guide through the mesmerizing tapestry of cultures, landscapes and experiences that await us. Global Journeys with Jill Dutton is more than just a travel podcast. It's an exploration of humanity itself. Through the power of storytelling, we illuminate the lives of the remarkable individuals we encounter along the way, whether it's through the eyes of a fishing guide, a distillery owner, a mixologist, a historian, chef, or even a farmer. Each person we meet adds a rich layer to the narrative of culture and place. In this podcast, we embark on a transformative journey where the focus goes beyond the typical tourist attractions. Instead, we dive deep into the hearts and souls of the places we visit, uncovering the hidden gems and untold stories that make each destination truly unique. Join me as we venture off the beaten path, seeking authenticity, connection and a deeper understanding of the world we inhabit. Together, we'll unravel the tapestry of cultures, one story at a time. Although my writing career began in the late 90s, when I created and launched a wellness publication called Evolving Magazine, since 2015 I've worked as a travel writer on a mission to seek out the locally celebrated foods, liquor, trends, outdoor activities and stories of those I meet along the way. My work has been published in Wine Enthusiast, A Far Woman's World, first for Women, insider, road Trippers, modern Farmer, Chilled Magazine and many more digital and print publications. I'm also the creator of Global Plates the People we Meet, the Food they Eat A Syndicated Column. Creating this podcast is the next step in my journey of sharing the stories of the people I've met along the way. So pack your curiosity, leave your preconceived notions behind and let's embark on global journeys with Jill Dutton, where each episode promises to inspire, educate and awaken the wanderlust within us all.
Speaker 1:
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