Global Journeys with Jill Dutton

Ecuador: Explore the Enchanting Landscapes and Cultures with Travel Writer, Heide Brandes

July 04, 2023 Jill Dutton Season 1 Episode 1
Global Journeys with Jill Dutton
Ecuador: Explore the Enchanting Landscapes and Cultures with Travel Writer, Heide Brandes
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In this premiere episode, Jill sits down with the extraordinary world traveler, Heide Brandes, for an awe-inspiring conversation that will ignite your wanderlust and broaden your horizons.

Heide Brandes, a seasoned explorer, shares her exhilarating experiences and insights gained from traversing the globe. Tune in as she takes us on a mesmerizing expedition to the enchanting landscapes of Ecuador. From the breathtaking beauty of the Galapagos Islands to the vibrant cultures of Quito and beyond, Heide’s tales will transport you to the heart of this remarkable South American nation.

Discover the profound impact that travel can have on our lives, as Heide reveals the transformative power of immersing oneself in new environments and embracing unfamiliar customs. With Jill’s engaging interview style and Heide’s passion for adventure, this inaugural episode promises to be an unforgettable exploration of the world and the profound connections it fosters.


Discovering Ecuador's Diverse Landscapes:
Ecuador is renowned for its diverse landscapes, from the famous Galapagos Islands to the majestic Andes Mountains and the lush Amazon rainforest. Heide emphasizes that Ecuador has much more to offer than just the Galapagos Islands, with its stunning coastline, cacao plantations, and captivating cultural experiences. She recounts her adventures along Ecuador's coast, where she had the opportunity to explore the "mini Galapagos" and hike in the enchanting cloud forests of the Mache-Chindul Ecological Reserve.

Sustainability and Responsible Tourism:
Heide discusses the importance of sustainability and responsible tourism in Ecuador. She highlights her experiences with cruise companies prioritizing sustainability, such as Hurtigruten Expeditions, which will introduce the world's first hybrid-powered ship. These initiatives focus on minimizing waste, protecting delicate ecosystems, and supporting local communities. Heide also recommends choosing licensed guides who are knowledgeable about the region and can provide a safe and enriching travel experience.

Unforgettable Moments and Cultural Connections:
While exploring Ecuador, Heide had many unforgettable moments. She recalls swimming with playful seals in the Galapagos, where wildlife remains untouched by fear of humans. Additionally, she shares an emotional experience during a shamanistic ceremony in Aqua Blanca, where she received a spiritual cleansing from local curanderos. These encounters showcase the depth of Ecuador's cultural heritage and its spiritual connection to nature.

Tips for Travelers:

  • Heide recommends taking altitude sickness pills when visiting Quito, the country's capital situated high in the Andes Mountains. 
  • Additionally, for those embarking on a coastal or Galapagos adventure, seasickness pills can be beneficial. 
  • Heide emphasizes the importance of hiring licensed guides to overcome language barriers and enhance the travel experience. 
  • She also encourages visitors to explore off-the-beaten-path destinations and support local communities.


Find Heide on Instagram at @heidewrite, or at
Kontiki Cruises:
To'ak Chocolate -
Third Millennium Alliance  -
Galapagos Hurtigruten -

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Jill Dutton  0:05  
Hello, and welcome to Global journeys with Jill Dutton, the captivating travel podcast that takes you on an extraordinary adventure around the world. I'm your host, Jill Dutton and I am thrilled to be your guide through the mesmerizing tapestry of cultures, landscapes and experiences that await us. Global journeys with Jill Dutton is more than just a travel podcast. It's an exploration of humanity itself, through the power of storytelling we'll illuminate the lives of the remarkable individuals we encounter along the way. Whether it's through the eyes of a fishing guide, a distillery owner, mixologist, historian, Chef, or even a farmer, each person we meet adds a rich layer to the narrative of culture and place. In this podcast, we embark on a transformative journey, where the focus goes beyond the typical tourist attractions. Instead, we dive deep into the hearts and souls of the places we visit. Uncovering the hidden gems and untold stories that make each destination truly unique. Join me as we venture off the beaten path, seeking authenticity, connection and a deeper understanding of the world we inhabit. Together we'll unravel the tapestry of cultures, one story at a time. So pack your curiosity, leave your preconceived notions behind, and let's embark on global journeys with Jill Dutton where each episode promises to inspire, educate and awaken the Wanderlust within us all. 

Today is an exciting event for me. Not only is it the premiere of this podcast, but I chose a very special guest for my first interview, a travel writer like myself, Heidi Brandis and I met on a trip to Lubbock, Texas, and have since traveled together on many adventures, including fishing off of a remote island and Alaska, spending a day with an oyster farmer in coastal Mississippi, and fly fishing in the mountains of Colorado. Heidi is no stranger to the world of travel. She has traversed the globe, documenting her experiences and sharing her insights with fellow wanders. Today, Heidi brings us a captivating glimpse into the enchanting country of Ecuador. Heidi is an award winning journalist, travel writer and editor who has spent her career in journalism. She specializes in adventure travel, cultural deep dives, destination travel and quirky little known topics. She has by lines in such publications as the Smithsonian, BBC travel, National Geographic Explorer, Sierra magazine, AARP and numerous others. She is the president of the Society for professional journalists Oklahoma pro chapter, and as a Lowell Thomas award winner with the Society of American travel writers, as well as a multiple award winner in North American Travel Journalists Association. When not traveling and writing Heidi is an avid hiker, a medieval reenactor, a professional belly dancer, and kind of a quirky chick who lives in Oklahoma City. So without further ado, please join me in welcoming Heidi Brandis to global journeys with Jill Dutton. Heidi Brandis thank you for joining me today.

Heide Brandes  3:15  
I am absolutely thrilled to be here today and I cannot wait to share stories with you because you and I have a lot of stories between us anyway.

Jill Dutton  3:25  
We do have a lot of history. We met travel writing. Yes, we did.

Heide Brandes  3:29  
And we've been fishing together and we've been road-tripping together and we even went and and pulled up some crabs and oysters together. 

Jill Dutton  3:39  
Oh, that's right, in Oregon. That was wonderful. And, whenever I think of you it always comes to mind of when you just were so enthusiastic to go kayaking in Alabama with alligators.And there was Heide saying,  Let's go!

Heide Brandes  3:56  
Well, these alligators are like popping up and popping down and popping up.

Jill Dutton  4:01  
Yes, I always you're fearless. So I appreciate that. But Okay, before we jump into discussing Ecuador. Tell me a little bit about your experiences. As a travel writer. I know you've been a journalist for your entire career. So what was it that led you to travel writing specifically?

Heide Brandes  4:16  
Well, as of this year, 11 years ago, I went full freelance as a journalist, but I was still doing kind of the hard news grind. I was the Oklahoma correspondent for Reuters News Service. I was still doing a lot of reporting for area news organizations here and it's a tough grind girl. I mean, it's like churning out you know, three to five stories a day and it's is nothing good. About 2016 There was a series of just some really horrible stories I had to cover and that's when I realized I was I was I had done my bit for Canyon Country internal Listen, I was tired of writing and in really horrible politics. I knew travel writing was a thing, because I read it. I just had no idea how to get into it. But I was like, Well, I can't be that different. I think I think my superpower in life is I'm too ignorant to know that something can't be done. So I just kind of throw my hands in the air run towards it, like I'm gonna do. Yes, exactly. That's great. And that sort of had. And then I, you know, there were a lot of people along the way, you know, Matt Payne and Oklahoma, Christine and Oklahoma's but Hilton out there and California who kind of took me under their wing and, and introduced me to people and introduced me to opportunity. So I have a lot of people to thank for being on this travel writing journey. So I find it's so much more rewarding now. Writing, I mean, going to amazing places and beautiful place and writing these amazing stories and these beautiful stories, and sometimes very hard stories, too, because as you know, travel journalism is real journalism. It touches on everything from culture to, to in, you know, war, food, history, politics, business. I mean, there's it is, it is real journalists.

Jill Dutton  6:24  
Right. Exactly. Well, let me see. Tell me about some of your favorite destinations, I guess and why I know I've just watched Yeah.

Heide Brandes  6:32  
that's the hardest question to answer, isn't it. Yeah. I mean, because everybody comes up and ask you, where's your favorite place? You're like, oh, man, you sound like a dork saying that. But it's kind of true. But I particularly loved Turkey. Yeah. And it was a very short trip, for a convention in Turkey. And just you can feel the weight of history in Turkey. It's like they're ghosts everywhere. And they brush up against you whispering in your ear. And it's absolutely magical. That's I loved Northern Territory, Australia, because it kind of reminds me of my homeland. It's like Oklahoma and Texas of Australia. So for I don't trust rain pedal down there. There's damn crocodile and every single puddle of water. But lately, and I look back at all the beautiful place and I've been amazingly beautiful places. Alaska, really hold something in my heart, Alaska and British Columbia. I just love that wild, untamed last frontier. I mean, Alaska is Alaska will kill you if you're not careful. But it is. I mean, there's a vast swaths of land that there are still places no human have set foot in. And that just fascinates me. The most beautiful landscape I've ever seen to

Jill Dutton  7:34  
 That is That's fascinating. Okay, well, I have watched you personally grow and even the last year, it just seems like you're exponentially just going to more and more fantastic, you know, Bucket List worthy places. So, I'm just curious, I guess, how has your traveling changed over the years? Are you traveling more? Are you going further away? You know what I mean?

Heide Brandes  8:21  
You know, it's funny, because, you know, going to all these places, you've always dreamt of going you know, Fiji and, and Antarctica. You know, it that's life changing. It really is. But I think what it's done is also opened my eyes to what's close at home. I mean, so my biggest articles this year, have been based in Oklahoma. So I think it gives you a greater appreciation of some of the, quote, more mundane destinations that you miss. But I'm just kind of on a personal note, every time I travel, even if I'm not on a travel writing trip, if I'm just, you know, taking a road trip with a girlfriend of mine or something. I'm always thinking, how can I sell it? How can I sell it? No, you're always on vacation, but you're never on vacation, never on vacation. Thing is, is writing shorter and shorter and shorter. And that's what so many outlets are wanting is you know those 300-800 word articles. And I know you're like me, we'd love to tell big deep stories with lots and lots of spice on it. You know, yes. The people we meet and the people it's always about the people, isn't it? It really is.

Jill Dutton  9:43  
It really is. Okay, so what is one important life lesson that you've learned from traveling the world? And then we'll move on to Ecuador.

Heide Brandes  9:51  
Oh gosh, one life lesson I have learned from traveling the world and it

Jill Dutton  9:55  
could be just what you had already said about the appreciation for your locality. Yeah,

Heide Brandes  10:01  
I think the biggest life lesson and I think it's a life lesson that everybody should have is when it comes down to it, we're all the same all over the world. I mean, everywhere you go, I don't care if it's a Lebanon, Australia, Belize or Tulsa, Oklahoma, people want to live in peace, they want to enjoy a good meal with friends, they want their kids to be happy and healthy. They, they want to share their what's special about their home with you. It's not the people of the world that mux everything up. It's damn politics. And, you know, I think recognizing that, you know, we're souls are the same in Africa, as they are in Oklahoma City or Kansas City, or, you know, and I think that makes you a lot more tolerant and accepting of other people's differences at same time to Excellent.

Jill Dutton  10:57  
Well, I'm for one, and I know, I'm not alone. I'm a huge fan of your traveling and your writing. Thank you. You know, I mentioned in the introduction, your awards, and you just never failed to impress me as far as, like I said, one of the first stories I read of yours was, was in Portugal, where the clay pot and you wove this story of culture in place with this cooking, and I was fascinated. I mean, you really have a gift. So thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, so Well, thanks for all that, Heidi. And now I'm going to ask you some quick questions, we're going to kind of switch over to Ecuador. And so

Heide Brandes  11:37  
are one of my favorite places. Yay.

Jill Dutton  11:40  
So if you could just respond briefly, the questions are kind of designed just to give the listener a quick overview of the destination. So you ready? Yeah, hit me. Okay. What does Ecuador known for?

Heide Brandes  11:53  
Um, Ecuador is mainly known for the Galapagos Islands, which is on everybody's bucket list. And Charles Darwin, of course, made the Galapagos Islands famous, because it, it kind of boosted his theory of evolution. But Ecuador also has the Andes Mountains, the Amazon rainforest, this amazing coast. And cacao or chocolate, as we know, is really big down there. But it's actually a very diverse country with so many different landscapes.

Jill Dutton  12:28  
Oh, fantastic. And what was your favorite thing that you did in Ecuador?

Heide Brandes  12:32  
Well, it's hard to be the Galapagos. Because it's kind of a life changing experience, because you're seeing animals that have been unchanged for centuries. And, but I love hiking and Kuta paxi National Park, which is one of the highest and most stunning volcanoes, and it's still active down there. But also, there were some very unique experiences along the coast. We're at one on one interactions with the people who live there. And that was real blessing,

Jill Dutton  13:05  
I bet. And what was it that surprised you the most about Ecuador?

Heide Brandes  13:12  
Oh, you know, believe it or not, flowers and bananas are the most are the biggest industries in Ecuador. Oh, and, yeah, and you're like flowers? Yeah, but the roses in Ecuador are famous. And, like 90% of the roses in Russia come from Ecuador. That's basically is that

Jill Dutton  13:36  
I did not know that.

Heide Brandes  13:37  
Yeah, then and you know, the variety of landscapes and weather. You know, on the coast. It was hot, muggy, like kostar but and mountains. It was downright chilly most of the time. But you can see it all I mean, rain forests, mountains, oceans, plains, all that is an Ecuador.

Jill Dutton  13:57  
Fantastic. Okay. And last question. Last Rapid Fire question. Why Why should someone plan a trip to Ecuador, in a nutshell

Heide Brandes  14:06  
is so much to offer and even better. It's really kind of cheap and affordable. Which is a big, big deal. If you're like me, and you're a budget traveler. And you know, the Galapagos is rather expensive because there's major tourism draw. But I encourage visitors to explore other parts of the country like the Andes, like the rainforest and the coastal community is of Manta and Gaia kill. I mean, the people are friendly. You have no problem finding reputable guides because the government controls that they have to have a license and training. And it's cheap. Yeah, I mean, how can you be that right?

Jill Dutton  14:45  
I agree. I agree. Okay, well, thanks for the quick look at Ecuador. And let's let's dive in fully to the destination a little bit. Okay, so Ecuador. It's known for its diverse landscapes, including the Galapagos Islands and Andes Mountains in the Amazon rainforest. I guess which of these areas did you have the opportunity to visit? And really what kind of stood out about each one to you the most?

Heide Brandes  15:09  
Well, the last. Do you want me to go from first trip to last year? Or last trip? The first trip? Oh, I

Jill Dutton  15:15  
didn't realize you had more than one trip there. Okay, I

Heide Brandes  15:17  
had I had two major trips to Ecuador. In the last, I guess, here,

Jill Dutton  15:21  
oh, then you choose. Whatever you whatever stands out that you want to know.

Heide Brandes  15:25  
Well, I'll go with the last one I did, which was in December, and it was to Ecuador's coastline. Which by the way, it gets almost no visitors. Everybody comes to Ecuador either goes to rainforests or the Galapagos or hikes and Andes, but this this coastal area, especially in the Manaphy, proper province of Ecuador, is so rich, that's a relatively unexplored and there was a great expedition cruise that I went on, it was Contiki expeditions. And they have a like a NEO luxury yacht is what they call it, but only has nine rooms. So it's like maximum 18 people. So it was a very intimate experience. And, you know, as opposed to, you know, in addition to being on a yacht, which was pretty, you know, fancy. You know, they also calls this area, the mini Galapagos because you're gonna find the blue footed boobies. You know, you're gonna find the seals and the first seals and you know, a lot of that famous wildlife that you see in the Galapagos, there's this great place called the pet Chokshi. I'm probably butchering the pronunciation is PAC. Oh, C. H. E. marine wildlife refuge, which is near Manta, and that was one of the best hikes I've ever done. I mean, we were in rainforests, and there were howler monkeys and these little fingernail sized frogs. And do you like it's a marine cloud forest. But we also had some really incredible experiences with the people down there, like I took part of in this, like shamanistic ceremony in this little community called Aqua Blanca, and min, monta Leela National Park. And so this shamon took us into the ceremony where we stood in a circle, it was called a seven seven winds ceremony. It wasn't religious, so people who who are, you know, very religious, don't have to worry that it's, it's something paganistic is mainly kind of a thankfulness ceremony, and an asking, you know, the universe or God or whoever that you pray to, to bless you and the people you love. And it was one of the most, like, incredible experiences I had in Ecuador. Besides 

Jill Dutton  18:07  
That sounds powerful.

Heide Brandes  18:09  
It was! So it was an expensive trip, because, you know, it's a private yacht, but, you know, if you got 18 people and you can split the cost of it, it is it's kind of a venture, nobody else you know, had, right, so, sometimes you look for that, you know, it's like nobody else has done this, but I did.

Jill Dutton  18:33  
Can you tell us a little bit about the yacht itself? What was the experience like then on board? Oh, yeah.

Heide Brandes  18:39  
Well, it's called the M sy era. And that's why RA and it's 128 foot luxury yacht. Like I said, it's only got nine state rooms. But the staff was incredible. We had the best food and the chef staff on this boat. had local ingredients. They had vegetarian ingredient gradients, so we always had seafood too. But they also have a top side bar, a hot tub, sundeck Assad area, I mean, it's it's like glamping on the water. You know, it's what a great way to explore. And they have an onboard naturalist and guide. So you're learning so much more than if it was just a party about which is fine. I mean, it is an expedition boat. But they also had a water which had a three storey inflatable side slide that went from the top of this yacht into the ocean. It was kind of scary at first, but it was pretty fun.

Jill Dutton  19:44  
I can't imagine you've been scared.

Heide Brandes  19:46  
Oh, and and you're barefoot the entire time. You're not allowed to wear shoes on this boat. You don't need to.

Jill Dutton  19:50  
Wow. Yeah, that's pretty cool thing that is interesting. Okay, well, tell me about an emotional moment you had during the trip, you know? Did something happen or connection with someone that you made or just a particular experience that was so overwhelming or the scenery, you know, on the Galapagos Islands,

Heide Brandes  20:10  
the Galapagos itself, you know, is life changing? Because, you know, even as a travel writer, I never imagined that I would have the opportunity to really go to the Galapagos. As you know, when our business sometimes it's, they're, you know, they're trying to attract visitors. And Galapagos has no problem attracting visitors. So it was like, Well, I never be able to do this on my own. But um, yeah, when I was swim, I remember this. We were off this little island. I think it was like Santa Cruz in the Galapagos. And we were snorkeling and swimming in this protected Bay and the wildlife are this, you know, so cut off from the rest of the world that they're not afraid of humans. May you're not supposed to get within six feet, but they come running up to you like little baby seals come pull up and up to you whether they go, you know, button eyes, and you're like, oh, no, you can't be close to me. But I was snorkeling. And looking around, I was looking for octopus, and I felt something brushed my back. And the seal had come up under my arm and it started circling almost like rushing up against me and just playing with me in the water. Wow. And it was one of those things in the water. They own the water. You're not gonna get away six feet away? No. But it was it was her thing where it was playing with me. It was just as curious about me as I was about it. And that was I'd never had that up close. And personal experience with wild animal. And I've been, you know, scared was separately like Oklahoma rattlesnake or something. You know, you don't want to have enough close personal experience with them. But I see on the Galapagos.

Jill Dutton  21:59  
Oh, that's amazing. That is wonderful. Let me see her sustainability and responsible tourism, they become increasingly important topics in travel industry. Did you come across any initiatives or practices in Ecuador that promote these principles?

Heide Brandes  22:15  
Absolutely. Um, the first time I went to Ecuador, was with Hurtigruten expeditions, which is a Norwegian Cruise Line. And they're kind of known for their sustainability. In fact, last year, they introduced the world's first hybrid powered ship. Oh, and as we speak, right now, they have a plan to make it completely zero emission cruise ship by 2035. Oh, that's great. And there are a lot of other cruise companies that are doing that. So my introduction to Ecuador was with Hurtigruten expeditions on the Santa Cruz to ship. So everything was about sustainability. You know, there was zero waste. We were it was it was right at the tail end of the bad part of COVID. So of course, we're all wearing masks. Because you don't want to get the animal sick. You didn't want to get any of the people who live there sick. Everything was I mean, you were just very careful if you even touch the animals. But everybody was so passionate about sharing why these animals had to be protected and what they were doing to make sure the Galapagos stays as pristine as possible. But even on the Contiki cruise, it was the same way. I mean, there were there are places we went where they limit the amount of people who can be there at any given time. But you don't overwhelm the ecosystem. And of course, you know, no single use plastics.

Jill Dutton  23:50  
Okay, well, probably last question, unless there's something that you thought of that I missed. But I was just curious, you know, maybe any just basic tips you have for someone who's wanting to visit Ecuador. How to get

Heide Brandes  24:03  
for one, if you're going to Quito, and Quito was absolutely one of my favorite cities. It's very, very high up in the mountains. Take altitude sickness, pills. Oh, yeah, I cannot stress that enough. They are prescription pills, you can ask your doctor and say I need Altitude's prescription pills. He'll know exactly what you're talking about. It will save your butt because there were other people on this trip and boy, they were suffering from the altitude. And it does it makes you sick people have actually died from our today's sickness though. You're not that high and you know, and keto. But why? Why be miserable when you don't have to be and if you're gonna go along the coast and to the Galapagos. Probably a good idea to get some seasickness pills do. Oh,

Jill Dutton  24:52  
definitely. For the Chris and I had someone asked me before this podcast that was curious about for English. Speaking visitors is yeah, what's the language and

Heide Brandes  25:04  
there was a lot of language barriers, because that's why it's so important to get quality guides and the guides in Ecuador, go through a government program, they actually have to go through schooling to be official guides, and they get licenses to do that. So if you're going to go to Ecuador, I mean, they're easy to find, if you, you know, Google Guides in Ecuador, but you want one that's been trained, and most of them are, you know, do speak English. And or they're very, very knowledgeable, and they'll keep you safe, which is another big part of it, because Quito is beautiful city, and I spent most of my time in what's called the old town or the historic district. That being said, there are, you know, just like every other city in the world, there are some rough areas, and it's good to have somebody with you, if you're in those rough areas. I mean, there's going to be pickpockets and people who try to you know, hustle you, they tend not to do that if you're with an official guide. surance that means, like, I don't speak a lick of Spanish suffer, you know, though so Raisa? Yeah. Yeah. And then you're gonna learn so much more than you would on your own. Right. So we went to, I mean, the equator runs right through Quito, right? And so there's just one place where they thought the equator was and turns out, it was like, two miles away. But it was pretty close. And then they built another one. And so you're, you're gonna learn about all this history. But we had we went with a guide through metropolitan touring, which partnered with Hurtigruten on this Galapagos trip. And it was one of the most amazing city tours I've ever taken. And I stumbled across while he brought us to the shop. Where are they? There are these ladies called curanderos and their spiritual healers, oh, and I was able to go back and get a cleansing done and girl it's, it's not basically the small little elderly Ecuadorian woman stripped me naked, and they rubbed a bundle of stinging nettles all over my naked scan. Oh, my goodness. And as she's doing it, she's like muttering in Spanish and her little granddaughter that goes, Oh, my mother says Your energy is blocked and you have you have bad energy lines. I'm like, Well, it's been 50 years since I've had a spiritual cleansing. So I'm in the south. So this thing, nettles I guess bring out all the like bad juju that you've collected. Okay, and then they rub you down with rose petals soaked in oil, which feels really nice after having stinging nettles all over your body. But people went keto do this like we go get massages. I mean, it's just like, the way of life for them. Just Oh, it's been about two weeks. I need to go get my my spirit cleansed. How interesting. Yeah, they do it too.

Jill Dutton  28:15  
And did you go to the lightning? I mean, afterwards? Yes,

Heide Brandes  28:19  
I did. Um, I don't know whether it's just the adrenaline of having my body on fire. Or just the the sheer, you know, adventure of it all. But I mean, I didn't get the full one do the full one is if I was sick, and they were trying to figure out what's wrong with me. They would take a black guinea pig and rub it all over my body or an egg. Then they would kill the guinea pig and open it up or crack open the egg and be able to say what's wrong with you? Oh, my gosh, that's so interesting. There's a very kind of spiritual, almost supernatural field to Quito. And its and its people. And I'm sure it goes back centuries and centuries to the Mayans and Aztecs and the Incas. Fascinating. Yeah. Oh, did you know that? We can thank the Andes Mountains for potatoes. Potatoes until people went to the Andes or you know, yes. Explorers went to the Andes and brought it back to Europe. Yeah. Oh, potatoes come from Ecuador. Well, from the Andes and Peru and

Jill Dutton  29:32  
oh my gosh, okay, well, finally, um, we're gonna, I'm gonna wrap it up. But um, so what's next for your adventures? I think you're taking off tomorrow. Yes, I'm

Heide Brandes  29:41  
going to the Yukon territories and Canada. Which is kind of north of British Columbia. It's closer to Alaska than it is to Vancouver. Is a very deep dive kind of indigenous experience trip for two Making. So we're starting out in Whitehorse, and we're learning about, and you would, I think you would find this fascinating Jill, apparently, there is a huge tie between the indigenous people of the Yukon in Canada, and Caribbean. When when slavery was horribly still going on, they would bring slaves in from the Caribbean. So now you've got this fusion of indigenous and Caribbean cuisine up there. And they're bringing that back and bringing it more mainstream, which I know that's right up your alley, because you always write about the history of food and you do it so wow.

Transcribed by

Conclusion and call for suggestions
Coming in the next episode: Sullivan Catskills, New York